We, Americans, live in a society where all cultures, ethnicities, and races are accepted—from personal experience, racism is still a problem in some places of the promised land…the “we still wana be the Confederate” South. So, naturally, we taboo Hitler, Nazis, concentration camps, communism, etc. When we initially answer the question posed in the title of this reading, we say, “Heck no, I would not do something for Hitler. I have a heart, thank you!” However, would we do something possibly inhumane for the sake of obedience to a “master,” if you will, or would we apply our standard of morality and disobey? Milgram’s intent of the experiment sought to differentiate obedience levels in Americans and Germans; yet, I believe this to be an intriguing question for the individual within ourselves whether it be electrocution or a less severe means of which we are ordered to obey.
Since no one else knows your thoughts, let’s be real right now. Say you and the roomy went to the basement of your dorm to do laundry, and your roommate saw a dollar on the floor under an ironing board. He/she tells you to grab it real quick so you both can buy yourselves a reward for being cleanly. You know that’s not your dollar, but you start thinking of the Skittles in the vending machine upstairs, and your mouth starts watering—you know the kind that hurts because you can almost taste the colors of the rainbow?—and you really, really want that dollar which has never been in your possession. Then you’re thinking what to do…and, shoot, the Honor Code song from orientation just popped into your head. But dang, your salivary glands are going crazy! So what do you do? Your roommate tells you to make like James Bond and stealthily somersault to the desired specimen. (If you’re having a hard time imagining this, watch Casino Royale, take a little stroll down to the laundry room, and look for a dollar.)
So again, my friends, I ask you, what would you do? Obey the command of the “master” or follow the promptings of the Honor Code song? Of course, we all naturally say the “right” answer which is to leave the dollar under the ironing board, but really think about this. Put yourself in the situation. Imagine I didn’t set the stage, and it’s real life. I mean, come on, your taste buds are practically jumping out of your mouth right about now. Take it or leave it? That is the question. You need no justification because your roommate already told you to take it…
Although Meyer’s article regarding Milgram’s experiment was not as trivial as the situation described above, it poses an interesting question. These tests made him question even himself. Why are humans obedient to peers, strangers, whomever even when the command does not fall under a normal action for the individual? Is obeying a cruel command a justification of underlying wickedness? Is it done in order to please the “master”? Is it simply blind obedience with no thought? We can speculate what we would do in certain circumstances, but can we trust ourselves? Hmm…?
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I think the real question should be: If there was a $10 or $20 bill under the ironing board, would you take it?
ReplyDeleteA $1 bill is so trivial. Many may not even be tempted by that. If it were my choice I would probably leave it hoping the owner would find it, but not really caring if someone else picks it up for those skittles in the vending machine in stead of me.
But if it were a bigger number, I would think, "Hmm, if I leave it, the owner may find it. Or, someone else might pick it up. Or what if, no one else notices it, and it is swept off under the washer never to be seen again? If I take it, then Heavenly Father might be blessing me with this opportunity to get a few extra dollars, and I know I will put it to good use" When these thoughts occur, I usually decide to take it. Because anything larger than a $1 bill no longer is trivial in my mind.
As far as peer pressure goes, I would probably tell my friend to do what she wants. I could care less if they picked up the bill or not. If she really wants it, then obviously she needs it a lot more than I do. That's for the $1 bill. But with anything $10 or up, I would probably say split it evenly between us. That way it is fair.
Wow. This article was very eye-opening and somewhat disturbing. It makes me curious what I would do in that situation.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that people do have this tendency to compartmentalize their actions into ones chosen of free choice, and others that were forced on them. Who has never heard of a kid getting caught and saying, "so and so made me do it?"
It's true though. We've been taught obedience, and when it's not something we want to do, there's a tendency to turn off your own reasoning and fulfill the will of some other person. We often are caught there trying to rationalize obedience and have a hard time questioning the legitimate authority and merit of the action required from the one instructing us.
As for the arguments raised above, I don't think it has anything to do with rationalizing the action in doing something you know to be wrong, but actually want anyways. What benefit did they get from shocking the stranger? They resisted. They weer squeemish. It seemed immoral. There was no desire for anything that could come from it. It seems to me that the main message was one of human tendency to give their agency over to being the agent, the working hand, of some one else, even at great reluctance, simply because of perceived authority. Thus they can justify the action, perhaps not even really conciously participating, by turning one's self over to auto pilot and executing the command.
It's disturbing to think that I possible have such a lack of self-control, that I could be so easily manipulated.
Where's the line though? Take war. Sometimes we need to obey without understanding why because the information that would justify the action may be sensitive, and it's unreasonable for each individual to demand to be convinced of every action required of them. There's no time. We need to have a trust in our leaders. It's worked for us so far, but it would only take one person with enough authority backing them, then what could happen? How do we establish a line at which to 'snap out' of auto pilot?
I think that we tend to follow the commands of our peers because we want to fit in. Usually we take a liking to the peers that we think of as "cool" and want to be of their approval. In the case of the dollar bill scenario, we humans would easily take the command of someone we want to impress or feel inferior to. But on the flip side we might find it easier to CTR if it were someone we did not think as highly of as the "cool" kid.
ReplyDeleteDating back to Hitler and Nazi Germany, I simply believe that the soldiers followed orders because they did not want to be the outcast. They felt inferior to Hitler and did not want to be shamed. I also think that the people dating back pre-20th century did not have enough courage to stand up for their beliefs. It was a lot easier for them to comply with Hitler’s orders.
Being Mormons, we have especially been taught obedience even though we may not fully understand why. For example, we are taught that we should obey the law of tithing even though we may not see the blessings right away or know where our hard earned money is spent. However, faith is a huge aspect of our church and obedience to the laws of God requires a strong sense of faith in Him.
ReplyDeleteAnother example of obedience without fully understanding why is when members of the LDS Church follow certain teachings and commandments given by the Prophet that they don't particularly comprehend. Many members listen to and adhere to the words of our modern prophet, President Monson, without knowing exactly why he gave a certain commandment.
I got my ears pierced in third grade. I had them done at Claire's with my sister who is two years younger than me. The lady who pierced my ears was a young and pretty brunette. She made a dot on both of my ears to mark the place she would push the earring through. I was so excited!! The first earring went through perfectly and didn't hurt too badly. But, on the second, the girl goofed. She lost her grip on the earring gun and the earring shot through significantly lower than the other earring. Thus, ever since third grade, I have had extremely lop-sided ears. I was so distressed because a lot of people in my class noticed. I was embarrassed because of my earrings.
When I started fourth grade, my mom proposed that I get a second peircing on the crippled ear to balance out my ears. I thought that this was a great idea and I couldn't wait to get my second peircing. However, about a week before I was going to get my new second peircing, President Hinckley proclaimed that all girls should only have one peircing on their ears. My mom and I were devastated!! I was never able to remedy my horribly imbalanced ears because the prophet suggested I shouldn't. To this day I still have one earring high on my ear lobe and the other one distinctly and extremely low on my other lobe. This is what I do for my church...I'm kidding...I'm trying to be dramatic.
I'm sure many, many members have situations similar and hopefully a bit less trivial than mine where they stopped or didn't do something because a leader from our church proclaimed against it. This is called obedience.
Now, I'm not saying that our church leaders are the same or even relate to Hitler, because they couldn't be more opposite. My point is that we cannot blame the Germans of that time for following the words of Hitler. If you truly believe a leader to be right and speak the truth, you will do most everything they say. Such was the situation with many of the Germans during Hitler's "reign." Of course we as Americans know that what Hitler did was terrible and we would never follow anything he would ever tell us to do, but a good amount of the Germans at that time were not aware of the atrocities Hitler was committing. If they were aware, most of them thought it to be the right thing.
Believing something is true leads to obedience in that something whether it be a person such as Hitler or a religion such as the LDS religion.
Authority establishes itself in a variety of ways.
ReplyDeleteHitler established his authority by creating fear. I would be surprised if all of Hitler's soldiers were in agreement with Hitler's ideas and methods. Many probably hated what they were forced to do, yet they did it anyway.
Why didn't they stand up for themselves and stop such evil tyranny? Everybody wants to be the hero, or earn a moral victory. For people subject to Hitler, it may have been a life-or-death scenario.
Some authorities get their power by creating change and help others. Other authorities gain respect by leading a crowd that everybody wants to be a part of.
How do we choose which authority figures to follow? How they obtained their authority (war, politics, religion, fame) may be just important as the message they deliver.
As Americans, this is a question our heritage has passed down to us -- when do you stand up against authority? The democratic spirit set up by our founding fathers is one of rebellion, of taking action against the tyranny and immoral conduct of authority. The Declaration of Independence puts it perfectly: "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government." "Right" and "Duty" are powerful words to throw in the face of tyrants. We, as citizens, have a right and duty to stand up against what is morally wrong. I firmly believe that.
ReplyDeleteI believe that democracy entails a constant healthy doubt of the government and its leaders. Follow the laws of the land, yes. Follow the commands of our government, yes. Serve our country in every way possible, yes. But follow blindly? Never. There are times when reasons can't be given, and that is when trust is needed. But when things are most definitely wrong, and reasons are not given, or do not suffice, that is when one must stand up and take action. That is part of the American Experience.
This is, of course, how I feel towards government and civic authority. With regards to the church, my feelings are absolute -- the Prophet is always right. Period. In that, I have no doubts, no questions.
No doubt it's the affects of peer pressure, which have had crazy affects on people who are normally rational poeple. It's amazing how smart a singular person can be, but when you put them into a group with other people, stupidity rules. Riots are the best example of how peer pressure and influence can run rampant throughout a group of people and lead to horrible results.
ReplyDeleteEven the best of people can be completely deceived into doing something that will no doubt ruin the moral that they once carried.